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Difference between pages "History100pagesPetitcourier" and "History100pagesPhotodating"

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Second Empire Fashion plates from Petit Courier des Dames 1852-5
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The Costumer's Manifesto: Links for Dating Old Family Photographs usingFashion History and styles of Photo-mounts '''Links for Dating Old Family Photographs using Fashion History and styles of Photo-mounts'''These links are provided so you can teach yourself to do this for yourself. Please note, the author of this site does not accept commissions to do this, paid or unpaid, so please don't email me attachments of your old photos with this sort of question.
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarterPetitlogo.jpg]]
+
[http://www.rogerco.freeserve.co.uk/|Victorian and Edwardian Photos]
  
Second Empire Fashion plates from
+
[http://www.cartes.freeuk.com/time/date.htm|Date an Old Photograph]
  
''Petit Courier des Dames''
+
[http://www.acay.com.au/~gsm/DatingPhotos.html|Dating Photos]
  
1852-5
+
[http://www.city-gallery.com/guide/index.html|Old Photo Guide]
  
Images provided by Acarter of
+
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/your_history/family/victorian_photo1.shtml|BBC History, Your Family History - Old Photographs]
  
[http://www.ebay.com|eBay]
+
[http://www.ajmorris.com/roots/photo/index.php|19th Century Photography]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1852petit.jpg]] 1852
+
[http://www.vintageconnection.net/archives/DatingFashionsInAntiquePhotographs.htm|Dating Fashions in Antique Photo]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1852petit1.jpg]] 1852
+
[http://www.familychronicle.com/dating.htm|Family Chronicle - Dating old photographs]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/ancmag/7113.asp|Your Female Ancestors in Photographs]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit10.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.familytreemagazine.com/photos/previouscols.htm|Family Tree Magazine Features: Identifying Photos]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit11.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.fashion-era.com/Dating_Costume_History_Pictures/costume_detective_1910_crowd_1.htm|Costume Detective - How to Date an Old Photograph]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit12.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.fashion-era.com/Dating_Costume_History_Pictures/how_to_date_photographs_top.htm|How to Date Old Family Photographs by the Costume Worn]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit13.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.users.waitrose.com/~rodliffe/dating.html|Photo Dating Calculator]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit14.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.vintagephoto.com/reference/dating.html|Dating Card Mounted Photographs]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit2.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.cycleback.com/|Cycleback: Print and Photograph Examination and Research]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit3.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.cycleback.com/photoguide/index.html|Guide to Identifying and Dating Photographs]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit4.jpg]] 1854
+
Online Costume References
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit5.jpg]] 1854
+
[[WorkingManifestoIndex|The Costumer's Manifesto]] (This site)
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit6.jpg]] 1854
+
[[100pagesTimelinepagesTimeline|Timeline of Costume History]]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit7.jpg]] 1854
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[[History100pagesCosthistpage|Costume History Links by Period]]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit8.jpg]] 1854
+
[[Advice1pagesDressdates|Dating Two Victorian Danish Photos]]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1854petit9.jpg]] 1854
+
[http://www.costumegallery.com/|The Costume Gallery]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1855petit1.jpg]] 1855
+
[http://www.costumegallery.com/fotodate/FAQ.htm|Online Photo-dating Service]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1855petit2.jpg]] 1855
+
[http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm|The Costume Gallery's Research Library]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1855petit3.jpg]] 1855
+
[http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/|Katherine's Dress Site]
  
[[File:FashionplatesAcarter1855petit4.jpg]] 1855
+
[http://members.tripod.com/~histclo/|Historical Boys Clothing]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.fashion-era.com/bustles.htm|Distinguishing between First (1870s) and Second (1880s) Bustle period fashions.]
 +
 
 +
[http://demode.tweedlebop.com/vic_hair.html|19th Century Hairstyles]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.fashion-era.com|Fashion Era]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.fashion-era.com/Coats_history/cloak_costume_history_1.htm|Cloaks Costume History I]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.fashion-era.com/Coats_history/mantelet_history_1.htm|Victorian Capes and Mantelet styles]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.fashion-era.com/la_belle_epoque_1890-1914_fashion.htm|Edwardian Fashions]
 +
 
 +
[http://alpha.furman.edu/~kgossman/history/index.html|Digital History of Fashion]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.marquise.de/|La Couturière Parisienne]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.marquise.de/en/themes/timeline/index.shtml|Fashion Change 1830-1920]
 +
 
 +
Some examples of undated photos 1840-1950 to use for practice:
 +
 
 +
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/82329524@N00/|Flickr Photos from mrwaterslide]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/47445802@N00/|Flickr Photos from oook]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/vintagephoto/|Flickr Photos from vintagephoto]
 +
 
 +
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/costume/clusters/|Flickr Photos tagged with costume]
 +
 
 +
Books for Costume Reference:
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Dating Old Photographs 1840-1929]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Wedding Fashions, 1860-1980]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Dressed for the Photographer : Ordinary Americans and Fashion, 1840-1900]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| American Victorian Costume in Early Photographs]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t|Victorian and Edwardian Fashion : A Photographic Survey]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Children's Fashions, 1860-1912 : 1,065 Costume Designs from 'La Mode Illustree']]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Wedding Fashions 1862-1912 : 380 Costume Designs from 'LA Mode Illustree']]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Victorian Costume for Ladies]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| The Well-Dressed Child: Children's Clothing, 1820-1940]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Victorian Fashions and Costumes from Harper's Bazar, 1867-1898]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Twentieth-Century Fashion : The Complete Sourcebook]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Fashion Accessories: The Complete 20th Century Sourcebook]]
 +
 
 +
[[File:h.t| Victorian to Vamp: Women's Clothing 1900-1929]]
 +
 
 +
'''
 +
 
 +
[[Store100pagesBookstore|MORE COSTUME BOOK LINKS]]'''
 +
 
 +
'''Notes:'''
 +
 
 +
Non-Fashion Steps to consider:
 +
 
 +
What kind of photo is it? Format? Framing?This will narrow the range of dates to look for, depending on whether it is a daguerreotype, cabinet-card, or snapshot.
 +
 
 +
Are there props, backgrounds, or other clues that can tell you about the occasion of the photo?
 +
 
 +
If the photo has been faded, or damaged or has a faded caption, scanning and enhancing in Adobe Photoshop can reveal missing information.
 +
 
 +
Fashion information:
 +
 
 +
Women’s clothing is easier to “date” than men or children’s dress.
 +
 
 +
Try to date clothing first using similar dated photographs as a guide, rather than jumping straight to fashion plates.
 +
 
 +
Fashion plates are good however for spotting matches to a weird detail of dress that doesn’t show up in many photos.
 +
 
 +
Not all wedding dresses were white.Not all white dresses were for weddings.
 +
 
 +
From 1850-1914 Particular attention should be placed on the shape of women’s sleeves.Sometimes sleeve shape alone can nail down the exact year the dress was made.
 +
 
 +
Remember that fashions are usually worn for a few years after they are bought, but it is really unusual for a normal person to have a fashion that is even a year “ahead of it’s time”.If your granny swears up and down that a photo is of her own granny on her wedding day in 1895, and she is dressed in a gown with a 1903-style sleeve, she got the date wrong.
 +
 
 +
Note the age of the sitter in relation to the clothes.Older people’s clothes and hairstyles tend to be a bit more outdated than younger people’s are.An 18-25 year old will not be caught dead wearing a fashion that is five years out of date, but his grandfather will. Many women wear the same hairstyle they adopted at 18 till they die.
 +
 
 +
''The Truth as Revealed by Yearbooks'': Older fashions (especially in hair and makeup) tend to make young people in old photos seem older looking to their descendents.This is especially true of the 50 years that precede the viewer’s birth.
 +
 
 +
Fashions tend to be less extreme, and move more slowly in more rural areas.
 +
 
 +
Menswear changes since 1800 are all about tiny details.Necktie history in the 20th century, and coat collars and vests in the 19th century are often big clues.
 +
 
 +
When looking for images that will match your own, try to find photo or costume books from the same country or general area.However, if you find a matching style of dress from London or Paris, and your photo is from a rural or frontier outpost, don’t automatically assume the image is from a year much later than the time the fashion was new.Fashion information traveled quite fast by the time of the beginning of photography, and mass produced clothing was normal by the mid 19th century, so even in Alaska or Australia, Western fashions traveled to remote outposts quickly.
 +
 
 +
Traditional dress in most places is not “fixed” in the same style over time, it just moves slowly.Examining the minor textile or needlework details in a photo in Traditional “Ethnic” or ceremonial dress will give you hints about the year the photo was taken, and bits that are Westernized will too.
 +
 
 +
This page last edited on
 +
 
 +
==Product Links==
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks5Antiqueandvintagecloth.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0891457135/thecostumersmani| Antique & Vintage Clothing: A Guide to Dating & Valuation of Women's Clothing 1850 to 1940]]  Antique & Vintage Clothing: A Guide to Dating & Valuation of Women's Clothing 1850 to 1940
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks5Yourvintagekeepsake.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096764450X/thecostumersmani| Your Vintage Keepsake: A Costume Society of America Guide to Costume Storage and Display]]  Your Vintage Keepsake: A Costume Society of America Guide to Costume Storage and Display
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks5Artdecohair.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1930064055/thecostumersmani| Art Deco Hair: Hairstyles of the 1920s and 1930s]]  Art Deco Hair: Hairstyles of the 1920s and 1930s
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks2Colectablefashionsturb30s.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/076430867X/thecostumersmani| Collectible Fashions of the Turbulent 1930s]]  Collectible Fashions of the Turbulent 1930s
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooksVintagehats.gif|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1574320289/thecostumersmani| Vintage Hats & Bonnets 1770-1970 : Identification & Values]]  Vintage Hats & Bonnets 1770-1970 : Identification & Values
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooksCollectguidevintagefash.gif|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1574320963/thecostumersmani| Collector's Guide to Vintage Fashions Identification and Values : Identification and Values]]  Collector's Guide to Vintage Fashions Identification and Values : Identification and Values
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks2Ahistoryofmensfashion.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/2080135368/thecostumersmani| A History of Men's Fashion]]  A History of Men's Fashion
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooksCostumeindetail1730.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0896762173/thecostumersmani| Costume in Detail : 1730-1930]]  Costume in Detail : 1730-1930
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks20000yearsoffashion.jpg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0810916932/thecostumersmani| 20,000 Years of Fashion : The History of Costume and Personal Adornment]]  20,000 Years of Fashion : The History of Costume and Personal Adornment
 +
 
 +
[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0810916932/thecostumersmani]
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks7120greatfashiondesigners.jpeg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486995046/thecostumersmani| 120 Great Fashion Designs, 1900–1950, CD-ROM and Book]]  120 Great Fashion Designs, 1900–1950, CD-ROM and Book
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks8Everydayfashof2othcentcdrom.gif|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486995445/thecostumersmani| Everyday Fashions of the 20th Century CD-ROM and Book]]  Everyday Fashions of the 20th Century CD-ROM and Book
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks8Victfashinamerica.jpeg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486418146/thecostumersmani| Victorian Fashion in America : 264 Vintage Photographs]]  Victorian Fashion in America : 264 Vintage Photographs
 +
 
 +
[[File:AmazonBooks8Victandedwardfashforwomen.jpeg|link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764315773/thecostumersmani| Victorian & Edwardian Fashions for Women, 1840 to 1919]] Victorian & Edwardian Fashions for Women, 1840 to 1919

Revision as of 01:17, 23 January 2014

The Costumer's Manifesto: Links for Dating Old Family Photographs usingFashion History and styles of Photo-mounts Links for Dating Old Family Photographs using Fashion History and styles of Photo-mountsThese links are provided so you can teach yourself to do this for yourself. Please note, the author of this site does not accept commissions to do this, paid or unpaid, so please don't email me attachments of your old photos with this sort of question.

and Edwardian Photos

an Old Photograph

Photos

Photo Guide

History, Your Family History - Old Photographs

Century Photography

Fashions in Antique Photo

Chronicle - Dating old photographs

Female Ancestors in Photographs

Tree Magazine Features: Identifying Photos

Detective - How to Date an Old Photograph

to Date Old Family Photographs by the Costume Worn

Dating Calculator

Card Mounted Photographs

Print and Photograph Examination and Research

to Identifying and Dating Photographs

Online Costume References

The Costumer's Manifesto (This site)

Timeline of Costume History

Costume History Links by Period

Dating Two Victorian Danish Photos

Costume Gallery

Photo-dating Service

Costume Gallery's Research Library

Dress Site

Boys Clothing

between First (1870s) and Second (1880s) Bustle period fashions.

Century Hairstyles

Era

Costume History I

Capes and Mantelet styles

Fashions

History of Fashion

Couturière Parisienne

Change 1830-1920

Some examples of undated photos 1840-1950 to use for practice:

Photos from mrwaterslide

Photos from oook

Photos from vintagephoto

Photos tagged with costume

Books for Costume Reference:

Dating Old Photographs 1840-1929

Wedding Fashions, 1860-1980

Dressed for the Photographer : Ordinary Americans and Fashion, 1840-1900

American Victorian Costume in Early Photographs

Victorian and Edwardian Fashion : A Photographic Survey

Children's Fashions, 1860-1912 : 1,065 Costume Designs from 'La Mode Illustree'

Wedding Fashions 1862-1912 : 380 Costume Designs from 'LA Mode Illustree'

Victorian Costume for Ladies

The Well-Dressed Child: Children's Clothing, 1820-1940

Victorian Fashions and Costumes from Harper's Bazar, 1867-1898

Twentieth-Century Fashion : The Complete Sourcebook

Fashion Accessories: The Complete 20th Century Sourcebook

Victorian to Vamp: Women's Clothing 1900-1929

MORE COSTUME BOOK LINKS

Notes:

Non-Fashion Steps to consider:

What kind of photo is it? Format? Framing?This will narrow the range of dates to look for, depending on whether it is a daguerreotype, cabinet-card, or snapshot.

Are there props, backgrounds, or other clues that can tell you about the occasion of the photo?

If the photo has been faded, or damaged or has a faded caption, scanning and enhancing in Adobe Photoshop can reveal missing information.

Fashion information:

Women’s clothing is easier to “date” than men or children’s dress.

Try to date clothing first using similar dated photographs as a guide, rather than jumping straight to fashion plates.

Fashion plates are good however for spotting matches to a weird detail of dress that doesn’t show up in many photos.

Not all wedding dresses were white.Not all white dresses were for weddings.

From 1850-1914 Particular attention should be placed on the shape of women’s sleeves.Sometimes sleeve shape alone can nail down the exact year the dress was made.

Remember that fashions are usually worn for a few years after they are bought, but it is really unusual for a normal person to have a fashion that is even a year “ahead of it’s time”.If your granny swears up and down that a photo is of her own granny on her wedding day in 1895, and she is dressed in a gown with a 1903-style sleeve, she got the date wrong.

Note the age of the sitter in relation to the clothes.Older people’s clothes and hairstyles tend to be a bit more outdated than younger people’s are.An 18-25 year old will not be caught dead wearing a fashion that is five years out of date, but his grandfather will. Many women wear the same hairstyle they adopted at 18 till they die.

The Truth as Revealed by Yearbooks: Older fashions (especially in hair and makeup) tend to make young people in old photos seem older looking to their descendents.This is especially true of the 50 years that precede the viewer’s birth.

Fashions tend to be less extreme, and move more slowly in more rural areas.

Menswear changes since 1800 are all about tiny details.Necktie history in the 20th century, and coat collars and vests in the 19th century are often big clues.

When looking for images that will match your own, try to find photo or costume books from the same country or general area.However, if you find a matching style of dress from London or Paris, and your photo is from a rural or frontier outpost, don’t automatically assume the image is from a year much later than the time the fashion was new.Fashion information traveled quite fast by the time of the beginning of photography, and mass produced clothing was normal by the mid 19th century, so even in Alaska or Australia, Western fashions traveled to remote outposts quickly.

Traditional dress in most places is not “fixed” in the same style over time, it just moves slowly.Examining the minor textile or needlework details in a photo in Traditional “Ethnic” or ceremonial dress will give you hints about the year the photo was taken, and bits that are Westernized will too.

This page last edited on

Product Links

Antique & Vintage Clothing: A Guide to Dating & Valuation of Women's Clothing 1850 to 1940 Antique & Vintage Clothing: A Guide to Dating & Valuation of Women's Clothing 1850 to 1940

Your Vintage Keepsake: A Costume Society of America Guide to Costume Storage and Display Your Vintage Keepsake: A Costume Society of America Guide to Costume Storage and Display

Art Deco Hair: Hairstyles of the 1920s and 1930s Art Deco Hair: Hairstyles of the 1920s and 1930s

Collectible Fashions of the Turbulent 1930s Collectible Fashions of the Turbulent 1930s

Vintage Hats & Bonnets 1770-1970 : Identification & Values Vintage Hats & Bonnets 1770-1970 : Identification & Values

Collector's Guide to Vintage Fashions Identification and Values : Identification and Values Collector's Guide to Vintage Fashions Identification and Values : Identification and Values

A History of Men's Fashion A History of Men's Fashion

Costume in Detail : 1730-1930 Costume in Detail : 1730-1930

20,000 Years of Fashion : The History of Costume and Personal Adornment 20,000 Years of Fashion : The History of Costume and Personal Adornment

[1]

120 Great Fashion Designs, 1900–1950, CD-ROM and Book 120 Great Fashion Designs, 1900–1950, CD-ROM and Book

Everyday Fashions of the 20th Century CD-ROM and Book Everyday Fashions of the 20th Century CD-ROM and Book

Victorian Fashion in America : 264 Vintage Photographs Victorian Fashion in America : 264 Vintage Photographs

Victorian & Edwardian Fashions for Women, 1840 to 1919 Victorian & Edwardian Fashions for Women, 1840 to 1919

This Page is part of The Costumer's Manifesto, originally founded by Tara Maginnis, Ph.D. from 1996-2014, now flying free as a wiki for all to edit and contribute. Site maintained, hosted, and wikified by Andrew Kahn. Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of Use for details. You may print out any of these pages for non-profit educational use such as school papers, teacher handouts, or wall displays. You may link to any page in this site.